When I got home from work tonight I took Frodo for our evening walk. He didn't walk this morning or last night because I was giving him a break and some time to wind down.
Well, didn't matter because he had his worst reaction yet since I got him back. We were walking down the road and all of a sudden a Great Dane pops up from a down on a porch and starts bellowing at us. I hadn't seen him and Frodo definitely hadn't seen him. He had a full blown reaction, and I ended up having to drag him out of sight of the Dane because he was completely unable to do anything but react. Even after we got out of sight he kept looking back and every small sound caused him to bolt forward, ears pinned back against his head (if he had a tail it would've been tucked).
We were pretty far from home but I headed straight back. On the way back he reacted pretty badly to two different pairs of people. One laughed at his reaction, causing him to react even worse.
I had my clicker with me, and he was able to do most everything I asked on the way home (sits, downs, hand touches), all of which are easy for him to do. I wasn't sure what I should be doing after his reaction to help him. I know when I was doing the clicker tricks with him he wasn't at all de-stressed, he was taking the treats hard and he was still skittish and reactive towards the environment.
One question I have is where he was threshold wise during this time. He seemed willing and eager to work for me, staying close and giving me attention, but he was also skittish and reactive. So would he be considered over threshold during this time? I know dogs are not able to learn when they are over threshold, so I am assuming they can still perform known behaviors while over threshold?
On the whole, I just don't know what to do about the situation. Do I stop walking him? I know every time he reacts is practice for his reactivity. Every time he reacts the dog goes away. I feel like every time we go out we see more and more dogs and they ALL seem to be reactive! I don't want his reactions to continue to escalate, but I have no way to get him in a situation with a stable dog where I am able to really work with him, and even if I did he is still going to see dogs on his walks because I have no control over who has dogs and when they walk them.
Yay for setbacks :(
He already seems way less upset about this than I am.
I don't know if I'm right, but... I know that when Maisy is over threshold, there is very little I can do to get her back- there seems to be a delay between the time I call her name and the time she responds- like it takes super long for her to process what I've said and respond to it. So, I don't think they can respond to known cues, or at least not in a timely manner, when overthreshold.
The way I would interpret Frodo's behavior is that he went over threshold when the Dane scared him, and remained over until you guys were out of sight. The skittish behavior was probably him HUGGING that threshold- juuuuust on this side, but barely hanging on... which would be my guess about why he could respond to your cues. And it makes sense to me that he'd be that close, because it sounds like he had a hair trigger.
With reactive dogs, I think that what really matters is how quickly they bounce back from going over threshold. Of course, if it's possible, you want to prevent them from going over threshold at all, but when they do (because they always will, sigh), you want them to both be able to stop themselves quicker AND to calm down faster.
For Frodo, it sounds like he was able to come back to under threshold, but he wasn't really calming down. So, it's good that he was able to bounce back and listen to you! I'd start working the Relaxation Protocol with him big time, if you haven't already.
I would quit walking, but I'd do everything I could to reduce potential outbursts. Odd times of night, new routes, whatever. I know that's hard (oh, do I!) sometimes though.
When Maisy goes over threshold, I like to retreat about 10-20 feet (depends on how stressed she seems- basically until she's able to look at me again) and play Look At That with the trigger. Have you done any LAT with Frodo yet? I really like this game for when she's near threshold because it both counter-conditions the scary thing AND gives her something operant to do- and this is a dog who needs to do SOMETHING.
Anyway... good luck, and keep your chin up! I know it's easy to get discouraged. I've been there, and there are times when I've just cried because I've been so disappointed and sad for my dog. But if you keep working at it, it does get better.
Thanks for the response!
I tried working on the Relaxation Protocol the other night, but I don't feel that I completely understand how to do the exercise. We completed the first couple steps (5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc) and then while I was doing one Frodo got up and walked away. I wasn't sure how to respond, I put everything away and the game ended. But then I was thinking that my response would have been more appropriate if the Protocol was a focus exercise, which it's not.
In the article about it Dr. Overall talks about splitting it up. But I don't understand how to split it up. Would I do a few of the steps and then just stop and do more later? I guess I don't understand how that would be any different than doing an obedience routine?
I've read and watched videos of different people doing the exercises and it seems like there is so much variation. Some people are using mats while others aren't. Some people are rewarding after each step while others are going through the steps and rewarding calming behaviors.
Am I supposed to tell him to stay after every step?
This is why I haven't been working with him on this regularly like I should, I'm really not sure of the way I am supposed to be going about it.
Unfortunately I can't seem to find my CU book right now. I know it is in the house, but not sure where, so I can't look up the specifics of the exercise. I know the jist is to mark and reward the dog for looking at the trigger. I used this with my other dog, but have not with Frodo. I will start though!
Thanks again for the information and encouraging words!!
I don't know if I'm doing it RIGHT, but here's how I do the Relaxation Protocol:
First, I use a mat. This is for a couple reasons:
1. We use a mat in my reactive dog class, so she knows it is her place to relax. Plus, I take it to trials to help her understand it's time to relax.
2. It's an extra cue to remind her that I want her to lie on it and be calm. (I chose lying down vs. sitting because it's more relaxing, and it seems easier for her.)
3. It's a target/place for her to be.
I treat after each step. So, count to 10, treat. Take 3 steps back, treat. I use calm, low, soothing praise. "Gooooood girl."
I do not repeat the stay command- in fact, I don't give a stay command in the first place. It's not a stay exercise, it's a relaxation exercise. So I put her on her mat, tell her to lie down (these days, though, she just lies down because she knows that's What We Do On The Mat), and start the exercise.
If she gets up, I just send her to the mat again and start over. If you find there's a particular step that always trips him up, try two things:
1. Try doing it first. For example, if he always breaks when you get to the take a step backwards exercise, find out if it's the movement or if it's just when you get 30 seconds (or whatever) into the protocol. If you find he just can't make it past 30 seconds, try rewarding more frequently. Instead of counting to ten, count to five. Instead of stepping backwards, rock back. Make the mat more reinforcing. Also end earlier, doing only 5 of the exercises instead of all of them.
2. If it's the particular exercise (again, for example, the step back), make it easier. Again, shorten the time, rock back on your heels instead of stepping backwards, lean to the side- whatever is easier for him. Jackpot if he makes it.
Oh, and DO NOT use the clicker. For most dogs, the clicker is highly arousing and exciting, which sort of goes against what you're trying to do here. Instead, just calmly praise Frodo, and hand the treat to him.
I've also altered the exercises when needed so that Maisy can be successful. I try to do them as closely as possible, because I figure there's a reason it was written as is, but I recognize that there are no one-size-fits-all solutions in training.
You guys CAN do this. I know it's frustrating (I've been there), but you can do it.
Thanks! I have been working with him on rewarding for being on the mat and it going really well. A few more sessions and I think I will be ready to move on to the relaxation protocol!
Yay! I'm glad to hear that. Can't wait to hear about how it's going.