For the trick challenge coming up I have been putting a lot of work into teaching spin and pivot to heel. I am luring the spin because I thought it would be easier. I am (trying to) shape the pivot to heel because I want to work on my shaping skills.
I prefer shaping, but I feel as though I am better at luring. I find that when I shape I tend to get stuck in a rut, give up, and just fall back into luring the behavior. One reason why I think that I am better/more confident in luring is because that was how I was initially taught to train, along with choke chains and god forbid you bring a clicker to class! But I *want* to be a better shaper than I am lurer (is that a word?) because I like the idea of the dog figuring the whole thing out himself.
I think it does depend on the dog, which method works better. Frodo learns a new behavior faster through luring than shaping because he isn't great at offering behaviors (something that we are trying to work on) and because he will follow the smallest morsel of food off of a cliff!
Anyway, I was just wondering what method (or even additional methods) the people who are reading my blog prefer, are better at, etc. What your dog(s) learn better/quicker with, how long you have been working with them on particular methods, etc. Basically whatever you have to say on the subject I would be interested in hearing...
Both my dogs find shaping really fun. It can be a bit frustrating at times, but they love the opportunity to interact with an object. I guess most of my pure free shaping is done with an object. When no object is involved (and for a lot of tricks you really can start with an object even if you need to fade it later; think backing up to a mat and then fade out the mat) I might do a combo of luring and shaping in the beginning. There is absolutely nothing wrong with luring. It's just that if you dont' fade out the lure fast enough you have a dog who has no clue what to do without it. And there's a lot of tricks that you simply won't be able to get past step 2 if you are still luring.
If you want to do shaping then by all means lure a couple of times and then wait for your dog to offer a small step. It's so much easier to start wtih an object though. When I work with new dogs the very first thing I shape is "go mat." Drop a treat on the mat, click as the dog goes to eat it. is the dog still there? then click and drop another one. repeat x5 then throw the treat off. almost every dog will at least glance at the mat to see if they left a treat. trick is to convince the dog that the mat grows treats. easily able to get distance very quickly. then do this with a stool, box, whatever. if you click everything the dog has no time to stare at you.
Or capturing. Capturing can be really hard for new tricks, but can be an easy way for a beginner to start with tricks the dog already knwos well like sit and down. click a sit, throw the treat. click a sit, throw the treat. you'll get fast sits in a hurry. then be brave and try down.
The first two years I had Maisy, I lured EVERYTHING. I didn't know any other way! When I first started doing shaping (and I have to say, it's easier for you both to learn on a task that "doesn't matter"- ie, if you screw it up, it won't matter for competition or whatever) we were both really frustrated. Maisy didn't know how to offer behaviors, and I didn't know how to split things down far enough. I would wait for a foot movement, when I should have been looking for weight shifting- that kind of stuff.
Now, we're both shaping addicts. I'll shape Maisy to do stupid stuff- go touch that folding chair- just for fun, not because I need her to do it. Maisy throws out behaviors like a crazy woman.
I tend to prefer shaping over luring. For one thing, I couldn't figure out how to lure certain behaviors. For another, it's fast and fun and I don't have to worry about fading the lure.
Even so, I do "cheat." I might lure the first step 3-5 times, and then wait for her to offer it. That lets me skip the first 5 steps in shaping.
I might prompt a behavior, too. I taught her to target my hand with the top of her head by touching her head, clicking and treating several times, and then waiting for her to figure it out. (As it turned out, I captured it a number of times before she offered it.)
Or, if it's object-related, I'll make a big deal out of the object, talk to the object, point to the object, etc. so that she knows, oh, hey, the object is the focus today!
Thanks for the responses guys!
I do love shaping, it's just hard when Frodo hasn't learned to offer a whole lot of behaviors though! He has started offering a bow on the book when we are trying to progress with the pivot to heel. He doesn't know bow, so he's making it up, but I know I need to stay on course with the pivot to heel work!